Nausheen Chen joins us. She is a wildly popular professional public speaking coach with clients like leaders at Google, Amazon and huge brands like Timberland and more.
Check out her site:www.speaking.coach
Nausheen has a free course we encourage you to check out! https://www.speaking.coach/free-course/
She shares her insights on modern ways to improve presentation skills.
From virtual (zoom etc) meetings to live public speaking in person, we touch on many little-known ways you can improve your communications.
Topics:
• why people fear public speaking,
• is it possible to overcome fear of public speaking?
• modern ways to improve communication skills ,
• little known ways to overcome fear of public speaking,
• dangers of certain beverages, lighting errors and sound mistakes,
• Methodologies which help build authenticity and clarity
Chapters
• 00:00 Introduction and Background
• 02:57 Discovering a Passion for Public Speaking
• 09:00 The Importance of Effective Communication
• 13:07 Challenges in Presentation Skills
• 21:02 Techniques for Effective Communication
• 25:07 Assisting Leaders in Communication
• 25:36 The Importance of Authentic Confidence
• 26:27 Coaching Introverts in Public Speaking
• 28:54 Overcoming Filler Words
• 30:00 The Impact of Comfort Level on Delivery
• 32:49 The Role of Coffee and Energy Drinks
• 34:23 Camera Angles and Gestures for On-Camera Presentations
• 41:36 The Importance of Practice
Try KiteWorks today at www.KiteWorks.com
Don't Miss our Video on this Exciting KiteWorks Offer!
Try KiteWorks today at www.KiteWorks.com
Don't miss this Video on it!
The Most Secure Managed File Transfer System.
Nausheen Chen joins us. She is a wildly popular professional public speaking coach with clients like leaders at Google, Amazon and huge brands like Timberland and more.
Check out her site:www.speaking.coach
Nausheen has a free course we encourage you to check out! https://www.speaking.coach/free-course/
She shares her insights on modern ways to improve presentation skills.
From virtual (zoom etc) meetings to live public speaking in person, we touch on many little-known ways you can improve your communications.
Topics:
• why people fear public speaking,
• is it possible to overcome fear of public speaking?
• modern ways to improve communication skills ,
• little known ways to overcome fear of public speaking,
• dangers of certain beverages, lighting errors and sound mistakes,
• Methodologies which help build authenticity and clarity
Chapters
• 00:00 Introduction and Background
• 02:57 Discovering a Passion for Public Speaking
• 09:00 The Importance of Effective Communication
• 13:07 Challenges in Presentation Skills
• 21:02 Techniques for Effective Communication
• 25:07 Assisting Leaders in Communication
• 25:36 The Importance of Authentic Confidence
• 26:27 Coaching Introverts in Public Speaking
• 28:54 Overcoming Filler Words
• 30:00 The Impact of Comfort Level on Delivery
• 32:49 The Role of Coffee and Energy Drinks
• 34:23 Camera Angles and Gestures for On-Camera Presentations
• 41:36 The Importance of Practice
Try KiteWorks today at www.KiteWorks.com
Don't Miss our Video on this Exciting KiteWorks Offer!
Try KiteWorks today at www.KiteWorks.com
Don't miss this Video on it!
The Most Secure Managed File Transfer System.
TOPICS: modern ways to improve presentation skills, new ways to improve public speaking, modern ways to improve communication skills , little known ways to overcome fear of public speaking, little known ways to improve negotiations, new ways to improve presentation skills, little known ways to improve negotiation skills, modern ways to negotiate effectively, effective ways to improve negotiations, secret ways to improve public speaking skills, effective ways to improve negotiations, why people fear public speaking, is it possible to overcome fear of public speaking, tactical empathy, negotiation skills, communication skills relationships, getting to yes, negotiation strategies and tactics,
Modern Ways to Improve Presentation Skills
Nausheen Chen joins us. She is a wildly popular professional public speaking coach with clients like leaders at Google, Amazon and huge brands like Timberland and more.
She shares her insights on modern ways to improve presentation skills.
From virtual (zoom etc) meetings to live public speaking in person, we touch on many little-known ways you can improve your communications.
Key Subjects:
• why people fear public speaking,
• is it possible to overcome fear of public speaking?
• modern ways to improve communication skills ,
• little known ways to overcome fear of public speaking,
• dangers of certain beverages, lighting errors and sound mistakes,
• Methodologies which help build authenticity and clarity
Takeaways
Effective communication is about getting things done and achieving desired outcomes.
Delivery is as important as content in presentations, and it includes factors like energy, body language, and engagement.
Acknowledging the audience's mindset and creating psychological safety can enhance communication in challenging situations.
Techniques such as pausing, using dynamic silence, and defining terms can improve the impact of a message.
Leaders can benefit from coaching to enhance their communication skills and become more effective in various contexts. Authentic confidence is crucial in public speaking, and faking confidence can lead to feeling hollow and uncertain.
Coaching introverts in public speaking involves personalizing the coaching process and teaching them the 'magic trifecta' of voice, energy, and body language.
Overcoming filler words requires understanding why they are used and giving the brain permission to pause and think.
The comfort level of the speaker directly affects the impact of the message and the delivery of the message.
Coffee and energy drinks can have negative effects on public speaking, and it is important to maintain stability and predictability.
Camera angles and gestures play a significant role in on-camera presentations, and open gestures and proper camera positioning can enhance the speaker's confidence and message.
Practice is crucial for improving public speaking skills, and recording and reviewing oneself can increase self-awareness and intentional speaking.
Chapters
D. Mauro (00:00.513)
It's just kind of one of those challenges. So welcome, everybody, to Cyber Crime Junkies. I am your host, David Mauro. In the studio today. Is my always positive illustrious co -host, Mark Mosher. Mark, thanks for joining us today.
nausheen i chen (00:03.118)
you
Mark Mosher (00:17.715)
David, I tell you what, if I could get you to introduce me on every Zoom meeting like that, I would be phenomenally successful in life. So you're on the hook.
D. Mauro (00:22.049)
That's what I'll do.
That'll be great. You know, in this podcast, we work on translating cyber or compliance or IT tech stuff into plain language, right? And it's probably translated into multiple languages, hopefully. But the point is, is that we try and do it so that people can understand what it means, what it means in real life, what it means practically.
And today we're joined by somebody very special, Nausheen Chen an extremely popular, well -respected public speaking coach for entrepreneurs and executives, showing them how to speak on camera, grow their brands. She's former communications trainer for Procter Gamble, a former filmmaker, director of communications, keynote speaker and trainer for leadership communications, and host of the Speak as a Leader.
podcast, all that we're going to get into in just a second. She's also an official LinkedIn Learning instructor with two classes that you can take today on LinkedIn Learning. We encourage everyone to do that. And she is a LinkedIn top public speaking voice. That was a lot. Narsheen, welcome to the studio.
Mark Mosher (01:37.075)
handle the end and you left out the most important piece. She's a really nice person, a really good human being.
D. Mauro (01:42.017)
Yes, absolutely. So welcome, welcome. Thank you so much for joining us.
nausheen i chen (01:42.646)
Aww.
nausheen i chen (01:46.574)
Thank you.
Thank you so much for the lovely intro, David. It's so great being here. So great talking to you and Mark. I love the energy, love the vibe. Great way to end my week. So thank you so much for having me.
D. Mauro (01:59.841)
Oh, fantastic. Well, we are we are available on a contract basis to introduce anybody for their zoom meetings or team meetings, whatever it is. It's like a side gig that we do. We just go around all the organizations. And here is the director of finance, the CFO, Bob Bradley. No, I'm just kidding. So so well, that's the goal. That's really the goal. So you are joining us from the south of France.
nausheen i chen (02:20.334)
You would bring smiles wherever you go if you do that.
D. Mauro (02:29.633)
and Mark is joining us from a very, very similar location. He looks out at the... He's over in Louisville, Kentucky.
Mark Mosher (02:34.163)
Oh, yes, very nice.
Mark Mosher (02:38.355)
It's a swine farm in southern Kentucky is where I'm broadcasting from.
D. Mauro (02:42.049)
It is the France of Kentucky, though. Like they always say Louisville is the France of Kentucky. So heavy, really. Okay, now I'm calling BS on this. I'm calling BS. Oh, no, you did work for Procter Gamble. Yes.
Mark Mosher (02:45.715)
It is the frame for protection.
nausheen i chen (02:50.798)
I've actually been to Louisville.
Yes, yes!
Mark Mosher (02:54.515)
Now you just made my week. You just made my week.
nausheen i chen (02:57.806)
There's a universe. The university is there, right? No, no, no. I was actually there when I was in the U S doing my masters. So the university of Kentucky is there, right? Yes. So I was there for a conference during that time.
Mark Mosher (03:02.833)
Yeah.
Mark Mosher (03:09.011)
Yes, yep, yep, just found the street. Oh, now you're pulling at my heartstrings.
D. Mauro (03:09.409)
Yes.
D. Mauro (03:13.397)
All right, I might believe that. All right, I'm believing it. Yes. Very good. So tell us, so let's, you know, how, when you were a younger child, you were looking to grow up and you wanted to do things. Did you like say, I want to be a director of communications at Procter & Gamble. I want to be a LinkedIn learner. LinkedIn wasn't even right.
nausheen i chen (03:17.07)
Such a charming, charming town. I liked being there.
Mark Mosher (03:19.795)
very much so.
D. Mauro (03:42.081)
What, like what, how did this start? Like how did you, public speaking is something that a lot of people struggle with. I mean, how did you begin or know that it was going to become a career of yours? I mean, I always think of the Seinfeld joke and I apologize, but he mentions clearly, right, that the number one fear is public speaking.
Mark Mosher (03:51.379)
One and a half.
nausheen i chen (03:52.366)
Mm -hmm.
D. Mauro (04:11.041)
number two is death. Like death is number two. So that means like at a funeral, we would rather be in the casket than giving the eulogy. Like how is that possible? Like it is hard for a lot of people. What, what, how did you know that that is what you wanted to do just as a, as a vocation, as a career?
Mark Mosher (04:20.851)
than having to give the UG.
nausheen i chen (04:21.164)
Hmm?
nausheen i chen (04:36.814)
Mm.
Mark Mosher (04:36.851)
Or did you know early on that that's what you wanted?
D. Mauro (04:40.193)
Even better question. I should have you on more often, Mark. I miss you, man.
nausheen i chen (04:40.622)
Right. So you'd know.
Mark Mosher (04:43.379)
Right? Not just a pretty face.
nausheen i chen (04:46.254)
So, the prettiest.
So you know that annoying kid who gets up in front of the entire family and recites the most boring poem ever? I used to be that annoying kid. I used to be that annoying kid. I've loved getting up on stage.
D. Mauro (05:01.729)
Yes, Mark.
Mark Mosher (05:02.739)
Oh
D. Mauro (05:06.369)
Ah, okay.
So you were always center stage trying to speak in orate, like be in order.
nausheen i chen (05:17.966)
Yeah. And the weirdest way possible. I loved entertaining. I've loved entertaining for as long as I can remember. I've done some acting. I've, and I'm a trained improv coach and performer. I've done some standup comedy. I was on the radio. That was my first job as a young adult, but I never thought this was my calling in life, despite taking every single chance I could get to get up on stage.
D. Mauro (05:32.385)
That's awesome.
nausheen i chen (05:45.39)
and share something, to run a workshop, to run a networking event. I posted indie film exhibitions. I did a tribute for David Bowie when he passed away. But despite all of that, I took the most winding route you can imagine to getting to doing public speaking coaching as a full -time job. I started at P &G as you...
mentioned, I was doing marketing and PR for the longest time. During that time, I became one of the youngest communication skills trainers there. And I loved doing it, even though it wasn't part of my job. It was something I was doing on the side as an extracurricular for the company. Wasn't even getting paid extra for it or anything, but I loved training. And at one point I was training folks that were 10 or 15 years older than me.
in communication skills and trainer and communication and presentation skills. And from that point, I had a career change, went into filmmaking. It was never part of the plan, just stumbled into it. Yes.
D. Mauro (06:54.209)
Yeah, for Zen and Zany, it was something it was something called Zen and Zany. What is Zen and Zany? Tell us. Oh, fantastic.
Mark Mosher (06:57.171)
Yeah. Yeah.
nausheen i chen (07:00.332)
That was my first company. That was the first time I was an entrepreneur. Was never on the cards. I had never imagined that I was going to be an entrepreneur. And at the time I had just done a master's in media studies from New York and my husband and I found ourselves in China of all places. I was completely unemployable by choice because I didn't personally agree with.
D. Mauro (07:05.473)
Wow.
nausheen i chen (07:29.518)
A lot of the, the philosophy that they had there in terms of working. I didn't, I'm not really into hierarchies. I'm not really into taking a lot of orders and not having my own opinions. Not that I'm saying every single company was like that, but I found a lot of companies to be like that. And I also didn't speak the language. So I was completely unemployable. What made sense was why don't I figure out how to do.
filmmaking, how to create commercials or corporate documentaries for clients and make a living off of it. And so I started doing that.
D. Mauro (08:05.441)
Absolutely, like product videos, sales videos, there's so many, like the training, the online classes, there's so much that can be done in that context.
nausheen i chen (08:09.239)
Yes.
nausheen i chen (08:18.99)
Yeah, exactly. I, and I did all of them in many, many different ways, shapes and forms and ended up doing it for seven years, ended up creating a small company where we would take on these projects for clients that were looking to create commercials for the U S and Europe. So never really created anything local, but we became not just the, not just a filmmaking company, but also in a way.
D. Mauro (08:23.106)
Great.
nausheen i chen (08:47.95)
cultural consultants, because we would be guiding folks on this is how you would show me time in a typical American family. This is how folks would, would, would have dressed. This is what they would say. And during, during that time, I was working with a lot of CEOs who are speaking on camera for the first time, typically entrepreneurs who had created these great businesses and startups.
D. Mauro (08:50.985)
Mm.
Mark Mosher (08:51.859)
Yes.
D. Mauro (08:57.215)
Right.
Mark Mosher (08:58.899)
Okay.
D. Mauro (09:03.009)
Right.
nausheen i chen (09:16.11)
but they had never spoken on camera before. They had never shared their story before. And that's when I realized.
D. Mauro (09:16.673)
Oh.
D. Mauro (09:22.241)
It's an interesting phenomenon, isn't it? Because we come across them all the time. We interview CEOs of startups in these companies or people that have moved into leadership after all these years. And they get on the podcast and they're being videoed. And they're like, this is one of the first times I've ever done this. They've done presentations, PowerPoint presentations, and achieved great success in their career. But they haven't.
nausheen i chen (09:26.006)
Yeah.
Mark Mosher (09:43.635)
which is a different fit, right? Yeah.
nausheen i chen (09:43.886)
Yep.
Mm -hmm.
D. Mauro (09:49.437)
spoken and answered questions and, you know, looked at themselves afterward in film and realized how much time, how often they say um and ah and all of those things.
nausheen i chen (09:56.622)
Yeah.
Mark Mosher (10:00.787)
Oh yeah.
nausheen i chen (10:00.974)
Mm -hmm.
Yeah, this is a huge disconnect. It's a destabilizing factor because if you watch yourself back and you're letting yourself down, it's massively disturbing. I get people who are traumatized by that.
D. Mauro (10:16.447)
Oh yeah, it's mortifying. It's yeah, it is mortifying the first couple times. Yeah. Yeah, it really is. Yeah.
Mark Mosher (10:19.379)
Well, that explains my traumatization right there because I watch video of myself all the time.
nausheen i chen (10:22.03)
Yeah.
nausheen i chen (10:27.22)
After a while you get desensitized to it, Mark. That's the normal process.
Mark Mosher (10:30.547)
Well, okay, I'll continue then. I'll continue.
D. Mauro (10:30.785)
Right.
D. Mauro (10:34.721)
Well, it's so true. And you know, this does this relates given that the show is called Cybercrime Junkies. Look, there's a lot of communications that has to happen for cybersecurity to be in place in organizations for organizations to grow their brands to protect their brands, right? For IT teams, internal IT teams, right?
nausheen i chen (10:43.406)
Mm.
D. Mauro (11:03.041)
to be able to get the services or tool sets or whatever that they need to get funding for that. They have to make internal business cases. They have to learn how to navigate and communicate effectively internally. And very few are skilled at that. That is a major hurdle for a lot of them. They openly admit that to us. And so I thought we could get some insight from you on...
What are some of the best, however you would want to approach it? Are there myths about it? Are there certain challenges that are pretty common? Bad habits that people have? Good practices? What are your, what's your thoughts?
nausheen i chen (11:52.718)
Yeah. So in terms of presentation skills, I love that we started with a, with this point of how it's not about hearing the sound of your voice. It's not about self -glorification. It's not about impressing someone. No. And a lot of people think that it is a lot of people feel like presentations are just the speaker getting up on their soapbox or their podium and just.
D. Mauro (12:08.321)
No, it's not about narcissism. Right.
D. Mauro (12:16.063)
Hmm?
nausheen i chen (12:22.326)
saying things to impress other people, to create a specific kind of impression, but it really is about getting things done. So the question is, how can you communicate in a way that gets things done that results in people taking the action that you want them to take, changing their beliefs about something that you want them to reflect on.
D. Mauro (12:25.377)
Right.
nausheen i chen (12:48.686)
or getting informed about something that you want them to be informed about. And there you have to look at the content of your message and the delivery. They're both in a marriage. Sometimes it's a very uneasy marriage where a lot of folks pay way too much attention to the content piece of it versus the delivery. For presentations, you'll see folks working on their slides till the last possible moment. They don't practice them.
D. Mauro (13:07.681)
Yes.
D. Mauro (13:14.401)
And the slides have so much information. Every slide is packed with like 35 points and we have 17 slides of it. And you're like, you are going to not communicate with somebody, right? You're not going to get it. It's not going to resonate.
nausheen i chen (13:18.062)
Oh gosh. Yes.
Mark Mosher (13:22.323)
you
nausheen i chen (13:24.847)
Yes.
nausheen i chen (13:31.662)
No, and not just that, but if you have that much info on slides, you're going to end up reading it off. And then you just become someone who's reading something out aloud for the audience who can read faster than the person can speak anyway. So they're done with the slide by the time you're halfway through and you've effectively undermined your own authority, your own credibility by just becoming a message delivery person.
D. Mauro (13:40.543)
Right.
D. Mauro (13:49.697)
Right.
Mm -hmm.
nausheen i chen (14:00.814)
Which you are not, you are there to create an experience. You are there to show people how you add something to the presentation by being the person who's delivering it. So that's the whole content piece. And a lot of folks pay a lot of attention to that, to their own detriment and not focus on the delivery. My key.
D. Mauro (14:01.459)
Yep.
Mark Mosher (14:15.347)
that.
nausheen i chen (14:29.548)
Takeaway here would be to make sure that the delivery is doing justice to the content. So I'm assuming that we're talking to experts. We're talking to folks that know what they're talking about inside out. I don't have to teach them what to say, but the way that you're delivering it, if you're speaking in a monotone and you're not varying up the pitch at which you speak, if you're speaking at the same speed and just.
going on and on and not really paying attention to giving any kind of variation and just not really engaging people in the way that you're speaking. People are going to tune out. They're not going to pay attention. If you don't pause, if you don't use body language that shows engagement and action and activity, if you don't make sure that you're portraying the right energy, showing up with the right energy, most folks.
Mark Mosher (15:09.011)
Yep. Yep. Yep.
nausheen i chen (15:29.198)
Don't look forward to presentations. They dread them. They feel like I'm just going to have to sit through this one because my boss asked me to, or I'm going to have to listen to this and maybe I can multitask a little bit, get rid of these emails while I'm here and pretending to participate. So.
Mark Mosher (15:34.065)
Uh huh.
Mark Mosher (15:49.363)
system. Pay attention, right? Right? Don't look down.
nausheen i chen (15:52.054)
Yeah!
So the moment you start being more intentional about the way that you're delivering the presentation, about the way that you're speaking, I call it a transition from lazy speaking to intentional speaking. The moment you do that, you're doing wonders for how your message is going to be received, understood, and remembered.
Mark Mosher (16:18.227)
So what I'm hearing you say is the way the message is delivered is equally as impactful as the message being delivered. Would that be fair?
D. Mauro (16:18.445)
Absolutely.
nausheen i chen (16:24.75)
Mm -hmm.
nausheen i chen (16:30.159)
Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. It's, it's the same as walking into a gourmet restaurant and then having the chef come and just slap the food in your lap. They didn't bother putting it on a plate. Well, you can eat it from your lap. Would you enjoy that?
Mark Mosher (16:42.803)
Yeah, yeah.
Mark Mosher (16:48.051)
Right, right. Well, let me ask you this. When it comes to, and I'll ask this and I'll put it in context as it relates to David and I, from what we've seen and observed, does a situation or an environment in which an individual is in, does that affect the delivery or the impact of a message? And here's the context of that, that a service and...
nausheen i chen (16:58.83)
Mm.
nausheen i chen (17:12.654)
Mm -hmm.
Mark Mosher (17:13.747)
that David and I and our team delivered is what's called a tabletop exercise. And it's where we bring an organization together in the event of a cyber breach, right? Of a ransomware attack. And how does everybody communicate together and how effective are they at communicating to resolve this very detrimental event to an organization? And we watch their communication abilities and.
and help them to navigate and do those more efficiently. So what we've found and what we've seen is that because of that environment, right, like that's a very traumatic event and suddenly people communicate differently. So is there, one, I guess my question is, does an environment or a situation affect people's ability to communicate? And two, are there any measures, skills or exercises people could take to better.
their communication abilities in some type of given event, whether it be a car crash or a house fire or in our case, a cyber breach. Does that make sense?
nausheen i chen (18:21.09)
Yeah, that's a great situation to dissect and analyze in terms of how people are responding and how they're communicating as the speaker. It's very beneficial to think of both what, what, what kind of mindset the audience is in and how you can make the best of the situation. So if you're a speaker or a presenter in that kind of environment, then acknowledging that.
The audience is going to be traumatized, distracted, and very, very worried. Acknowledging it and working with it, which means you might need to be clearer in your communication. You might need to pause and check in more. You might need to clarify things that you take for granted as an expert coming in, but they may not always be on the same page. So just, just like you would.
Mark Mosher (19:16.851)
Right, so.
nausheen i chen (19:21.134)
Take extra care with someone who has just been, been through a traumatic incident and you'd slow things down. You'd show them that there is psychological safety in this space that they can relax. They can take a deep breath. We are going to work this all out. Just like you would talk to anyone who's been through a traumatic experience. You as the speaker have the responsibility to take charge of the situation in a similar way.
And as the speaker, your job is also to put on your own oxygen mask first. And by that, I mean to calm yourself down first. When you, when you're calm and you feel reassured and you feel like you have things under control, the audience will feel the same way. They'll feed off of your energy. So.
Mark Mosher (19:51.059)
Right.
Mark Mosher (19:58.643)
Ooh, yep, I like that.
Mark Mosher (20:14.483)
That's it.
nausheen i chen (20:16.814)
Yeah. I often tell my clients that as a speaker anywhere in any room, you are the energy ceiling and you are the energy floor for the audience. So they will either rise to your level of energy. And in this case, it could be your level of frenzy or panic too, or they'll sink to either your level of calmness or the way that you're so chilled and laid back that you're actually.
Mark Mosher (20:32.179)
Right, right.
nausheen i chen (20:43.254)
defeating the purpose of being active and engaged. So it can go both ways, but understanding and rising to the occasion of being that leader in the room, the leading voice in the room. That's what separates a great speaker from an average one.
Mark Mosher (20:45.067)
I'm
D. Mauro (21:02.217)
Excellent insight. So it seems like using techniques like pausing, like using dynamic silence at the end of an important point highlights what was just said, right? When you make a good point and you pause, it kind of creates a dramatic effect for that. And then defining your terms, really important, right? Because...
Mark Mosher (21:02.547)
Yeah.
nausheen i chen (21:14.574)
Mm -hmm.
Mm -hmm.
D. Mauro (21:29.025)
so often when somebody is a subject matter expert in any field, in whatever it is, whether it's cyber or whatever, right, it doesn't matter. But when they use acronyms or they use terms, making sure they explain what those terms mean to everybody in the audience, because never assume that everybody actually lives in your world and understands. And then explaining kind of what it means to them, right, the impact of it. And those are...
nausheen i chen (21:37.646)
Mm.
D. Mauro (21:59.041)
That's really good. That's really good insight. I mean, I saw that you've coached for public speaking some leaders at major companies like Google, Amazon, like large company, Timberland. Like what type of assistance are you providing? What type of guidance can you give give people when they're when they're
Can you elaborate on that a little? Are you helping them present internally? Are you helping them present to the public? What's the context of some of that? Without disclosing, obviously, anything confidential.
nausheen i chen (22:41.934)
Yeah, of course. So both. I typically get two types of clients. One type are folks that work in these great companies and then the other type are entrepreneurs. And for both of them, the challenge is that they've realized they can't get to the next level without being visible and without speaking. In the corporate world, that means giving more presentations.
D. Mauro (22:45.089)
Okay.
nausheen i chen (23:10.318)
being more visible to senior management. If you want that promotion, making sure your message is getting across, making sure you're saying yes to speaking opportunities and not shying away from them. For entrepreneurs, it's doing more podcasts like this one, doing webinars, maybe even creating their own video courses, maybe creating video content for social media. So the clients typically come to me at a point where they realize that
them shying away from these opportunities to be visible is actually an obstacle in their growth. And they are, they are conflicted. They're at this point where they really don't enjoy speaking either because they've gotten poor feedback on their speaking skills in the past, or they feel very awkward and uneasy in the spotlight, or they feel ill at ease and they feel that their speaking skills are letting them down.
For whatever reason, they do not feel like they are effective when they speak, but there's this clash, this tussle, because on the other end, there's this necessity where they feel like they can't shy away from it anymore. Typically, these are folks that are transitioning from becoming individual contributors to managers or from managers to C -suite or C -1. And they know that the higher up they go in the company,
Mark Mosher (24:24.211)
Right?
Mark Mosher (24:35.565)
Thank you.
nausheen i chen (24:38.542)
the more they need to be able to communicate effectively. So I help folks become better communicators, both internally, when they're speaking to senior management, when they're speaking to their own teams, when they're speaking to two different departments, when they're delivering presentations or when they're speaking up in meetings. And I help them become better communicators when they need to be on camera or on a podcast or a big stage.
presenting their work and the work that we do in terms of improving their speaking skills is also on two different levels. I am a big believer that it's not just about the performative aspect of it. For many, many decades, I faked confidence. That's just how I was brought up because I was performing from a very young age, as I told you, and the performance of it came first.
Mark Mosher (25:27.187)
Now I'll have a coffee.
nausheen i chen (25:36.462)
But the inner confidence came later. So it's absolutely possible to fake confidence. And I never want any of my clients to ever do that because the more you fake it, the more hollow you feel inside. The less, yeah, the less you, you feel the less certain you feel.
Mark Mosher (25:42.515)
on it.
Mark Mosher (25:46.163)
Right.
D. Mauro (25:51.393)
Certainly.
Mark Mosher (25:51.475)
Well, that explains a lot, thank you.
Mark Mosher (25:57.683)
Yeah, yeah.
D. Mauro (25:58.433)
How do you coach introverts into public speaking? A lot of people are self -self - yes, they self -identify as introverts and they say, well, I don't know that I can public speak. And I say that you absolutely can. Right. And there's there's just certain ways of of doing it. Is there is there a model that you use or a framework or anything like like that that you can share with people?
Mark Mosher (26:02.353)
Ooh, or is it possible? Yeah.
nausheen i chen (26:05.038)
Mm.
nausheen i chen (26:14.028)
Mm.
Mark Mosher (26:17.843)
can cope confidence.
nausheen i chen (26:27.374)
Yes. So my approach is hybrid where I do have a framework that I teach, but I personalize coaching for every single person because they have their own challenges that they come with. The framework that I teach, I call that the magic trifecta of voice, energy, and body language. And that's on that performative level that I was talking about. So it's possible for anyone to learn those tools.
D. Mauro (26:38.113)
Yeah, absolutely. Right.
Mark Mosher (26:39.475)
Right.
D. Mauro (26:52.225)
Mm -hmm.
Mark Mosher (26:52.313)
I don't know.
nausheen i chen (26:57.23)
To simulate confidence, to show confidence. If you can learn how to play with your voice, to vary up the pitch, to project, to enunciate clearly, to get rid of the filler words. If you know how to use your body language, if you know how to stand a certain way, maintain eye contact the way that you were talking about earlier, David, you can absolutely learn to show that external confidence. The interesting work.
with introverts is how do we make sure they're not just putting on a show? They're not just putting on a mask. And I've actually worked with folks who've, who have put on these masks very successfully to the point where they've, they get great feedback from people saying that, wow, you're so confident on stage. You're so confident when you speak, but they feel awful inside. They feel awkward and less than, and.
Just absolutely not in their element. And the work that we do there is getting them to feel more and more comfortable in any speaking scenario. A lot of folks tell me, Nosheen, I feel very comfortable in the one -on -one speaking scenario when I'm speaking to someone on a Zoom call. But the moment you put me in front of a group, I freeze. I feel awful. I feel like they're judging me. And that's where we come up with strategies.
To bring the same vibe, the same comfort level that you're feeling in a one -on -one conversation into this awful environment of speaking in front of a group. And my aim there is to help you, whether you're an introvert or an extrovert is to help you amplify your personality and be able to express your personality so that people understand you and they remember you.
D. Mauro (28:54.951)
Excellent. How do people remove filler words? So many people get nervous and they say, um, and, uh, and things like that.
nausheen i chen (29:00.076)
Mm.
nausheen i chen (29:06.51)
Yeah. So with filler words, you have to understand why we use them. Very often your brain needs an extra second to think, but your mouth doesn't give it permission. And your mouth gets stressed and says, I need to keep talking. I need to just keep spewing words out because if I pause or if I stop saying something that people are going to judge me. And that's where the brain's not giving it any new information. The mouth is just taking the last piece of information or.
Mark Mosher (29:18.983)
Wow.
nausheen i chen (29:36.022)
filler word and just throwing it out there like like, uh, um, some folks have bad phrases that they use.
D. Mauro (29:42.273)
Yeah, my mouth and my brain are on two different time zones. So that's why. Yeah, that really explains a lot, a lot, kind of, like a lot of my issues. Okay, that's good. Yes.
Mark Mosher (29:42.291)
Interesting. Interesting. That explains so much about you, David. Wow.
Mark Mosher (29:51.987)
There you go, man.
nausheen i chen (29:57.23)
We're diving deep. So.
Mark Mosher (29:59.123)
Right, right. Well, let me rewind for a second real quick, because you touched on something I found really interesting. So it sounds like the comfort level of the speaker directly affects the impact of the message and the delivery of the message. Is that?
nausheen i chen (30:02.528)
Yes.
D. Mauro (30:02.751)
Yeah.
nausheen i chen (30:22.51)
Yep. Absolutely. Absolutely.
Mark Mosher (30:24.275)
I never thought about that because the point that really drove it was you said like some people may feel really comfortable in the one -on -one or some people may feel comfortable in a virtual but not on stage but when you can get them to that comfort level put them back in that the box that they're comfortable in that their delivery changes in the impact of their message is greater just based on their comfort level. Interesting.
nausheen i chen (30:45.07)
Mm -hmm.
nausheen i chen (30:53.294)
Absolutely. Yeah. And people have different ways of arriving at that point. That's why I said that is very personalized work. So I have had clients who arrive at that point by owning their role and their expertise in a more profound way. Typically when a young overachiever gets promoted too fast, they might have imposter syndrome. They might feel like.
Mark Mosher (31:02.067)
Mm -hmm.
Mark Mosher (31:12.145)
Mm -hmm.
nausheen i chen (31:22.222)
I'm just scamming everyone. I don't know why I'm here. And I've worked with folks like that. Brilliant folks, very young and ambitious. Yeah.
D. Mauro (31:22.273)
Certainly.
D. Mauro (31:28.769)
And that's very imposter syndrome. Imposter syndrome is very common in cybersecurity too, because nobody can understand it all. Nobody can be fully aware of everything. There's so many different elements to it. And then they get put in these leadership roles and they're like, I don't feel worthy. And it's just not accurate, right? There's still so many valuable lessons to be shared and leadership that can be done.
Mark Mosher (31:35.571)
Yep.
nausheen i chen (31:36.684)
Mmm.
Mark Mosher (31:58.515)
Yeah, yep, yep. Well, see, in my comfort level in speaking would probably present the unique challenge to you and your team in that it typically involves a cold pint of chicken wing, which would just be a really bad look on stage, right? Like, that's just not a good look. Like, you ruined all three of them for me at that point, right?
nausheen i chen (31:59.31)
Absolutely. Yeah.
D. Mauro (32:01.183)
What is -
D. Mauro (32:14.881)
This is why.
nausheen i chen (32:15.022)
You'd be surprised.
D. Mauro (32:19.297)
This is why I can't take you anywhere.
nausheen i chen (32:19.854)
You'd be surprised. You'd be surprised at how much, how many things people consume on stage. And I'm talking about legal stuff, legal substances, where people walk on stage. I've seen them with a plate of cookies. Of course, you see folks with beer, wine, different assortments of liquids. Whatever puts you at ease. I of course would say no coffee and no alcohol if possible.
Mark Mosher (32:21.745)
I'm sorry.
Mark Mosher (32:30.331)
Right, right, right.
Mark Mosher (32:36.947)
Oh wow.
D. Mauro (32:41.363)
Um.
Mark Mosher (32:45.875)
I'm sorry.
D. Mauro (32:45.953)
Right.
nausheen i chen (32:49.502)
More because of the effect it has on your voice and the effect it has on your brain, because I want folks to be completely in control when they are walking on that stage or when they're speaking on that podcast. But anything else works juices, hot chocolate, plain old water, but actually having something that you can consume. Sorry.
Mark Mosher (33:10.771)
I like the cookies. I like the cookies. Yeah. I like the cookies.
D. Mauro (33:14.561)
So, so, so yeah, he'll he'll he'll be walking on stage with cookies now. That's great. Now she thanks for that advice. But what about Oh, my God. What what has happened? What has happened? What is he? What is he doing? Oh, my Lord. Who let you out today? So, oh, my God.
nausheen i chen (33:16.558)
Yeah.
Mark Mosher (33:20.147)
Or stainless plug for Milo 73 when in the South, you gotta do what you do in the South. It's so deep. It's so deep. It's my comfort level, David. It's my comfort level. She said it's okay. It's the trust nest. It's the trust nest. She said it's okay.
nausheen i chen (33:24.07)
Whoops.
D. Mauro (33:42.561)
So, okay, you just mentioned coffee and caffeine. Is that an issue with certain public speaking? Because, I mean, most people grab coffee or an energy drink when they're about to go on stage. What are the pros and cons?
nausheen i chen (33:46.638)
Mm.
Yes.
Mark Mosher (33:51.443)
Yeah, that's interesting.
nausheen i chen (34:05.23)
Yeah, would you, I believe the time has come for me to close the curtains. Is that okay? Because I feel it getting darker.
D. Mauro (34:09.695)
Oh yeah, go ahead. Absolutely. Yeah, I will reprimand Mark while you're gone. It's perfectly fine. Dude! Oh my god. Oh my god.
Mark Mosher (34:10.451)
Oh, yeah.
Mark Mosher (34:22.747)
You knew when you invited me what you were in for.
D. Mauro (34:26.337)
What did I do? This is why when I click that share button on that calendar invite, I got to be more careful who I invite on these things. Holy cow. Oh my God. Meanwhile, I'm going to go drink more energy drink.
Mark Mosher (34:32.947)
Hahaha!
I wake up like this. I haven't even had caffeine yet.
nausheen i chen (34:38.446)
But don't you?
nausheen i chen (34:43.95)
You don't need it. There's natural energy just flowing here.
Mark Mosher (34:45.491)
No, I don't think that's what my therapist said too. Yes.
D. Mauro (34:45.537)
Yeah, you don't need it. Dude, you don't need it. Oh, my Lord. So let's circle back. We fixed the lighting and I've reprimanded my co -host. The impact of coffee, energy drinks, things like that, when people are presenting, let's say they're going to present a big PowerPoint for an initiative that they have in front of a board or...
nausheen i chen (34:54.286)
Yes.
nausheen i chen (35:06.51)
Mm -hmm.
D. Mauro (35:14.849)
they're going to be presenting to their team or giving some type of public speech in today's digital age. What are the pros and cons?
nausheen i chen (35:29.934)
coffee dries up your throat. You don't want that. And the impact of coffee from everything I've seen, I'm not a coffee drinker, by the way. So I'm strictly speaking from the point of research and experience based off of my clients and others. But what I've seen is that yes, there is a sweet spot, but people often overdo it, especially when they're in situations where there's high stakes, high stress. You tend to have a lot of coffee.
D. Mauro (35:51.913)
Ah.
D. Mauro (35:56.321)
and they get nervous and they keep going back to it.
nausheen i chen (36:00.11)
Yes. Anything that makes things unpredictable. That's what I advise against because I want to add predictability and certainty to the situation as much as possible because that directly adds to the level of comfort that the speaker has the level of control they feel in any given situation. Yes, absolutely.
D. Mauro (36:11.905)
stability.
D. Mauro (36:22.113)
And that helps with confidence. And that helps with their confidence, knowing that there's going to be fewer unknown unknowns that will occur during the presentation.
nausheen i chen (36:33.454)
Yeah, because the reality is unknowns are going to occur.
D. Mauro (36:36.001)
Like inviting Mark onto the podcast. Like when I have Mark out of the pocket, you never know what's going to come out of his mouth. And so therefore, it's completely unpredictable. Yes, that's why he's here. So that's why he's here. So let's talk a little bit about on camera presentations versus live. What are some of the what's some advice that you can provide in terms of?
nausheen i chen (36:44.878)
Hey, I'm enjoying it.
Mark Mosher (36:49.683)
That's why.
Mark Mosher (36:59.163)
Ooh, yeah, good point.
D. Mauro (37:05.473)
to prepare for that or pitfalls that they may find.
nausheen i chen (37:10.99)
Right. The very first thing to look at is the camera angles, which is not the answer anyone wants to hear, but it's super important when you're on camera, because imagine that you're walking into a room and you're presenting, but you're super tiny and everyone has to look at you through a magnifying glass. If your camera is very high, it makes you look small.
just physically, visually. And if you're visually looking small, you don't know what kind of psychological signals that's sending to the audience. Is it undermining your authority? Are you looking less like you could be someone who's in charge, that you have a voice that's worth hearing? You're just adding in extra tension, extra cognitive tension there for no reason. The same for very, very low camera angles where you can see up someone's nose.
D. Mauro (37:41.639)
Absolutely.
nausheen i chen (38:11.156)
Never a good idea because you look like a giant. You look intimidating. So it starts with making sure that your camera is at a good eye level angle, and that is showing enough of you. You don't want to be a floating head because then you can't show your gestures. So making sure that it shows enough of you and then making sure that you are using gestures, sharing a bit more of you.
D. Mauro (38:13.345)
Certainly. Right.
D. Mauro (38:30.785)
Right.
D. Mauro (38:38.754)
Gestures, yeah. Is there a recommendation on gestures? I've read and seen that you shouldn't make sharp gestures, quick gestures, that you should gesture smoothly. Like if you're going to make a point, like gesture smoothly as opposed to something quick or sharp and then it's distracting and people don't understand what you're, the point you're trying to make as opposed to a smooth point where you can just.
nausheen i chen (38:45.26)
Mm.
nausheen i chen (38:53.614)
Yes.
D. Mauro (39:06.657)
kind of emphasize what it is you're saying.
nausheen i chen (39:10.094)
Yes. Yeah. You read, right. And there are a bunch of other rules of thumb like that, which are, there are things that you should be aware of. So for example, I see a lot of folks using very closed body language where they hold on to one hand with the other, or they're constantly using tight fists, or they're just keeping their hands very, very close to their body. And this shows inhibition. It.
might show that you are not very sure of yourself. It might show that you're restraining yourself. So being more open with your gestures using bigger and open gestures, it works in terms of showing that A, you're confident, and B, you have nothing to hide. Open palms, signal, transparency, honesty, trust, especially ones that are extended towards the audience. But of course, the gesture has to go with the content.
D. Mauro (39:37.985)
Hmm.
Mark Mosher (40:04.243)
Wow, that's a great point there. That's really good. No, it's one of the things I struggle with. David actually teases me, he said if I ever need you to be quiet, I can tie your hands behind your back and you'll lose the ability to speak. So when speaking, now I know that the open palm and things like this could be enhancers, right? Like speaking enhancers. Okay.
nausheen i chen (40:08.046)
Sorry. Yeah.
D. Mauro (40:08.129)
Right.
nausheen i chen (40:13.868)
Mm.
nausheen i chen (40:22.636)
Great.
nausheen i chen (40:26.319)
Mm. Yes. Yes. And at the.
D. Mauro (40:29.057)
Right. But not doing it quickly, but doing it slowly and along with the message, have it aligned with the message that's being communicated.
nausheen i chen (40:33.9)
Yes.
Mark Mosher (40:36.019)
Right, right. Well, that's great insight. Yeah, that's great.
nausheen i chen (40:40.142)
Yeah. But also not overusing them and also not using the same gestures over and over. Cause that gets weird. People don't know that they're doing the same stuff over and over. And then people either get distracted or they tune out.
D. Mauro (40:41.665)
That's excellent.
Mark Mosher (40:47.859)
Mm -hmm.
D. Mauro (40:47.987)
Sure. Right.
Mark Mosher (40:57.396)
Right, almost looks like a nervous tick if you keep doing the same thing over and over.
D. Mauro (40:58.049)
How important is practice? Yeah, I'm sorry, Mark. I didn't mean to cut you off. Whoa.
Mark Mosher (41:03.699)
No, no, you're good. I'll put my hands behind my back and I'll be quiet. Ooh. Yeah.
D. Mauro (41:07.809)
No, no, no, no, I was just curious. How important is practice? Like for somebody before they're going to have a client meeting or present in front of a board or whatever the presentation may be, how important is to practice? Maybe record yourself even briefly on Zoom or on Teams and then watch it so that you can say, oh, wow, look at that. I have to move that in the background of my...
nausheen i chen (41:15.886)
Mm.
D. Mauro (41:36.129)
thing or I have to change the camera angle or I need to not always say, maybe it is practice important? Is that something that you... Okay. Nobody does it. That's why I'm asking. Like nobody ever does it. So nobody ever practices. Nobody practices. People just kind of show up at a meeting and they go, I've got a slide, I got 17 slides. There's plenty to talk about when we go. Right. And that's where I'm really trying to...
nausheen i chen (41:44.942)
is crucial.
Mark Mosher (41:46.963)
Okay, good. Yep.
nausheen i chen (41:48.11)
Yeah, it's absolutely crucial. And my clients do.
Mark Mosher (41:54.515)
Yeah.
nausheen i chen (41:58.766)
Yeah.
D. Mauro (42:05.921)
to learn more and to guide the team that I manage on practicing, right? Getting really good at the craft and really listening and asking good questions.
nausheen i chen (42:16.366)
I would say that practicing is crucial even before you have a presentation, because the best time to practice your speaking skills is now. So I help my clients practice on mock exercises. We come up with real world scenarios. Okay. What are the kinds of questions that you get asked the most? Let's practice those. And we absolutely use the method that you outlined where I have them all recording themselves and watching themselves back.
D. Mauro (42:22.465)
Yeah.
nausheen i chen (42:45.262)
giving themselves feedback and also looking out for my feedback on that magic trifecta that I talked to you about on how they're using their voice, how they're showing up with their energy and how they're using their body language, including their expressions. Once you start reviewing your practice, just like an athlete who reviews the game and looks at, Oh, great. So I made this move here and this was all right, but then look, I should have done something differently here.
It increases the level of self -awareness that you have in the moment as you're speaking. And that massively aids that transition from lazy, unintentional speaking to intentional speaking, where you're aware of the kind of words you're using, the energy you're putting out, how you're using your voice, how you're delivering your message.
D. Mauro (43:38.977)
That is fantastic. Narsheen, thank you so much. As we wrap up, what's on the horizon for you? What do you have coming up? We'll have links to your LinkedIn and any website that you have. Can you share that with the audience and share it with us now to steer so that if people want...
coaching and guidance and obviously they can check out your your LinkedIn classes as well.
nausheen i chen (44:10.382)
Yeah, absolutely. So I have a free course for anyone who's interested. It's a short free course that teaches you the basics of the magic trifecta that I was telling you about. It helps you understand how to use your voice, your energy, your body language. You can get that. If you go to my website, it's quite simple speaking .coach. So that's just speaking .coach and you can go there. You'll find this free course. And what's on the horizon for me is lots of exciting stuff.
I'm working, I'm leading a bootcamp. I'm actually going to do my third session with them right after our call today. So we're, we're meeting once a week and I'm helping the small group of entrepreneurs and execs improve their speaking skills. One week at a time. And that's on top of the one -on -one coaching that I do. Yeah. It's a great way to, to scale, to reach more folks and to also give them.
D. Mauro (45:01.857)
Great.
nausheen i chen (45:08.43)
a safe environment where they can practice their speaking and get feedback from others in the community. Because we're, we're not very aware of how we're coming across as communicators. We never take time to figure that out, but making sure that you're getting that feedback from people that are hearing you speak, seeing you present is absolutely invaluable. And it helps you improve exponentially.
D. Mauro (45:14.873)
Absolutely.
D. Mauro (45:36.545)
That's fantastic. Thank you so much. This is really good. This is excellent guidance. Yeah, and it's a very sensitive topic, right? Because it is one thing that a lot of people in organizations don't get trained on and they get, you know, people just assume, you know, you've got the deck, you've got the PowerPoint deck, go present the information, right? And they don't, and they fall on their face over and over and over because they're not doing...
Mark Mosher (45:39.699)
Yeah, this was a lot of insight. Yeah, that was really.
nausheen i chen (45:47.47)
Mm.
nausheen i chen (46:02.19)
Hmm.
D. Mauro (46:06.241)
these key techniques. That trifecta is great. That framework is great. Well, thank you so much. This is absolutely, absolutely insightful.
nausheen i chen (46:10.382)
Mm.
nausheen i chen (46:14.126)
Thank you. Yeah.
Mark Mosher (46:15.571)
Yeah, thank you. This is.
Yep. And it was fun.
nausheen i chen (46:21.102)
Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. Yeah, that was, that was a lot of fun. I love your energy. I love the vibe and it was great. I loved all the questions that you asked me. I hope that people who were listening walked away with something actionable and useful that they can start using right away.
D. Mauro (46:22.113)
Oh yeah, absolutely. Thank you.
Mark Mosher (46:38.867)
I'm sure they would. Yeah, absolutely.
D. Mauro (46:39.009)
No, absolutely. Great. And we will see you on, we will see more on LinkedIn. We will have links in the notes for everybody to gather up and follow you and find that information on LinkedIn. Thank you so much, Naxin Chen. Thank you so much.
nausheen i chen (46:56.302)
Awesome. Thank you. Thanks.